“As of 11:22 PM August 28, 2013, the Change.org petition has 32,883 supporters. I bet not one of them read the government press release.” Angela R Campbell, OhJustEatIt.ca
The reason I started this blog in the first place was because I realized there were a lot of really great Canadian musicians gigging in Toronto…FOR FREE. It was great for me, a single mother who couldn’t afford concerts. I didn’t like going to bars at first, but once I realized the music was good and the bars are actually really decent in this city, I rather enjoyed getting out. I made a game of it. It was like music roulette…would tonight’s band or bands be good or bad?
I started to treat it like research. I’ve always enjoyed sociology and musicians are a true subculture. They actually amaze me. They work really hard, no one appreciates them, no one pays them and they say they do it for the love of music.
Today this observation of this subculture took a new turn. There was an article written by Mike Bell in the Calgary Herald called “New fees for international touring musicians threaten smaller clubs and live venues across Canada”
Mike Bell based the whole article on what he was told by Spencer Brown, “the longtime booker” at the Palomino bar in Calgary. Musicians across the country started to share the article and freak! What, no more American bands to open for? How will we cope without them? Instantly an online petition went up on Change.org with the headline
“Canadian Government to Charge International Touring Artists $425 per Band Member per Performance in Canada, Previously A 1 Time $150 Fee”.
Okay. I know this stuff is emotional. People react first and think later.
What the government had to say for themselves
I don’t like to take my facts solely on the word of a “booker”, so I requested a statement from the Ministry of Employment and Social Development Canada. This is what I got from the kind Alexandra Fortier, spokesperson:
Hey Angela,
Here is a link to our News Release from the 7th of August announcing further improvements to the Temporary Foreign Worker Program:
http://news.gc.ca/web/article-eng.do?nid=762059For your question, the Labour Market Opinion (LMO) rules have not changed – it has long been the case that booking agents, promoters, and venue owners are required to obtain an LMO to hire international artists to perform in bars and restaurants in Canada.
The LMO fee simply covers the cost of processing LMO applications. Previously, Canadians taxpayers were footing the entire cost of processing these applications. Since June, employers that require an LMO cover the cost of processing.
The Seasonal Agricultural Worker Program and other primary agricultural occupations are not required to pay the LMO fee as there are proven acute labour shortages in this industry and the unfilled jobs are truly temporary.
Labour Market Opinions (LMOs) are designed to ensure that employers look to hire Canadians first before hiring temporary foreign workers.
When international artists are being booked by a promoter or booking agent to play at several bar and/or restaurant venues across Canada, they are only required to pay the LMO fee once.
Thanks,
Alexandra
Believe it or not, your favourite foreign touring bands are actually temporary foreign workers. They are actually competing against Canadian bands for paying jobs. Do you realize if a Canadian band could make enough money playing gigs in Canada, they could actually make enough to pay their taxes? Isn’t that something to aim for?
Some points to note about this:
a) “Previously, there was no cost for employers to apply for an LMO.
Employers are required to pay a $275 fee for each temporary foreign worker position they request through an LMO. This ensures that the administrative costs of the program are paid by employers and are no longer subsidized by taxpayers. The amount of the fee has been determined so as to minimize the cost to taxpayers while ensuring that the fee does not exceed the cost of providing the service. It is Government of Canada policy that employers not recover the fee from temporary foreign workers.”
Musicians are tax payers, are they not? Do Canadian musicians want to pay for venues to bring in acts that take their gigs away?
b) “Employers will now need to make greater efforts to hire Canadians before they will be eligible to apply to hire temporary foreign workers. New advertising requirements essentially double the length and reach of employers’ advertising efforts which will increase Canadians’ awareness of available jobs.”
And this is a problem for Canadian bands because…?
I was sad to hear from some musicians that they were concerned about who they would OPEN for if American bands wouldn’t be gigging in Canada. I wonder if they’ve ever thought about being the headline act? Dream big guys. You can do it.
On the other hand, some musicians just really love the international community and are concerned that venues won’t be inviting their buddies back to play with them. I can understand this sentiment.
I’ll leave you with some comments I found on Facebook on the issue. I hope next time, everyone will do their homework before melting down on a national level.
You musicians are a weird bunch. Thanks for the entertainment. I love you guys!
“We love America, their bands, their people and their venues. We love bands from many other countries, as well. We want THEM to come HERE more often, so we can drink, play shows and have an awesome time making new friends.
This prohibitive policy has quietly come into play, making it harder for all international musicians to play in Canada. Please help preserve the free cultural exchange we’ve had and cherished for so long, and email Jason Kenney @ jason.kenney@parl.gc.ca to let him know how misguided this is.” PUP, Toronto Punk band (posted a link to Calgary Herald)
“We’ve never been a political band of any kind, but this has some merit. I urge you to take a look if you care about the Canadian music scene (as a whole). #xox” Final Thought, Toronto Pop/Rock band (posted a link to Change.org)
“Attention all bands/music fans/promoters/venues/booking agents etc, we all need your help to sign this petition. At the moment it’s hard as it is for international touring artists to get by and this will significantly make it harder. Please help show your support to the music community:” Polarity, Toronto Rock/Progressive/Alternative band (posted a link to Change.org)
As of 11:22 PM August 28, 2013, the Change.org petition has 32,883 supporters. I bet not one of them read the government press release.
Interesting. you know when there was all the fuss & flutter around RBC outsourcing overseas and the follow-up on the misuse of the temporary foreign workers program by industries I thought of agriculture as the most common area where temporary foreign workers are called in seasonally. It did not occur to me to apply that designation to entertainers. It does fit though. And you know it always stings when a fee is charged for a long standing government service that was previously free to the business (ie: bill footed by the taxpayer).
With all due respect to this article, the original Herald article, the response you got from your inquiry and the petition being signed. The rules HAVE changed, the original $150 fee was / worker up to a max of $450 “one time” to enter the country. it is now $475 / worker. musicians and techs and management ect. there is no cap in this change. also i would like to note what everybody seems to be missing a small quote from the government website link located in the response you received http://news.gc.ca/web/article-eng.do?nid=762059 this fee is charged “PER POSITION” So let’s say your coming here from Jamaica to pick apples, awesome your employer pays the fee. thats fantastic because you only have one employer but when you are booked for twelve shows it looks like this. “pre” $450 max “one time”.. post! (5 lads + 1 sound tech/gear tech and a manager) ie a small touring outfit. That $475 X 7 for those of us who can’t do the math off the top it’s $3325 the employer pays….every employer…at every venue. NO CAP these charges apply for “Every position” so while the writer of this article does have some good points about jobs for Canadian bands this is a death sentence to smaller international bands. note international applies to the U.S and ya know i’m not sitting on a stat for this but i would hazard a guess that roughly 60% of the live music events booked in this country are american bands and foreign. so that’s fantastic if your just really into Nickleback ect. but i can assure you for somebody like myself who listens to more underground forms of music like hip-hop, punk, hardcore i will literally never see any of my favorite foreign bands ever. Period. i can list about 200….should I?
See the comment from Aaron Peters.
You are describing the fee as if it was a one-time $275 for the band. It’s $275 per band member PER GIG. So if a promoter wants a band of 4 to play Toronto for ONE GIG the cost is $1100. Imagine then if the band also wanted to do a side gig in London or St. Catharines? Imagine they had a sound tech or a merch person with them – same fee again per person per gig. That’s why musicians and promoters and fans are upset.
I saw Marnie Stern and Roomrunner (from NYC) at Parts and Labour last spring for $10. That show would have cost the promoter $1100 for Marnie Stern (3 band members + merch girl) and $1375 for Roomrunner (4 bands members + merch) for a total cost of $2475 before they paid for the staff, the sound tech, the gear rental, etc. At $10 cover, the promoter would not have made money back and that show wouldn’t have happened. That’s the problem.
See the comment from Aaron Peters.
Angela.
I hate to say it but i think you are the one who needs to read more carefully, http://news.gc.ca/web/article-eng.do?nid=762059
“The fee is charged per position, rather than per application, as an equitable way to ensure that larger businesses that make extensive use of the program pay more than smaller businesses that make less use of it. Employers pay the fee at the time they submit their LMO application”. PER POSITION is per paying job, per employer. This is not a one time fee any longer. this information is located in “The Backgrounder” located just below the original few paragraphs. please read farther down the article.
“When international artists are being booked by a promoter or booking agent to play at several bar and/or restaurant venues across Canada, they are only required to pay the LMO fee once.” did you not read that part?
This doesn’t work on the small/medium-level bars that a lot of our favourite bands end up playing in. These shows aren’t booked by an individual booking agency who only has to pay the fee one time. They’re booked initially by the band (or band’s management, which is usually their friend Steve), who calls up the bar and says “Hey does your promoter want to do a show with our band while we’re on tour?” The promoter agrees and is responsible for paying the band for their show in his city alone. Problem is he can’t afford the ridiculous new fees all by himself.
More reading
http://leftymcrighty.blogspot.ca/2013/08/hey-jason-kenney-i-just-did-your-job.html
Just because somebody says something doesn’t make it true. not me, not her and not the person who responded to her original message. don’t believe me follow the link scroll down to “The back grounder” at the bottom which confirms that these fees are paid “PER POSITION” i’m not trying to discredit the author, i’m trying to ….hmm suggest that you not buy into this article or the Herald article and follow the link to the government website that outlines the actual changes. Note: underneath the link is the quote about which i am speaking or as follows ……..“The fee is charged per position, rather than per application, as an equitable way to ensure that larger businesses that make extensive use of the program pay more than smaller businesses that make less use of it. Employers pay the fee at the time they submit their LMO application” ………..Canada is not the employer. the employer is the employer the position is the position. were not talking about bands on a festival tour being managed by one promoter, we are talking about multiple positions with multiple employers. If one promoter is booking the event and is acting as a single employer then you and the author are quite correct, the people being burned here are independent smaller bands. most of these bands don’t have managers and are booking single shows on a per-show basis. sometimes they literally have to book shows on the fly just to eat. trust me! if you aren’t “under the umbrella” and being handled by a management company or label you won’t stand a chance and the reality is that even if you are…those bands are still getting billed one way or the other. There are no gloriously benevolent benefactors in the music industry, you will pay for every everything including the toilet paper you wipe your “@$!” with. The reality for Canadian music fans and Venues…..strangely as most want to intimate, this will not close venues….there will always be bands to take that stage. As a lover of primarily “Underground” acts i can assure you none of these acts will be able to book shows in Canada, in fact they won’t even try…..these smaller acts run their own bands, book their own shows and survive off of the merchandise sales they get from their respective booths while on tour. They manage every aspect of their own bands….because they have no choice….they also tour 300+ days per year just to pay their bills and keep the machine rolling. This is the reality for up and coming and underground bands. these are the people who won’t be able to play here and it’s mostly those fans that will be effected. It is also unfortunate that while the bigger acts will still be able to book shows these fees have and will always be billed back to the consumer. so i do have to strongly argue against an article that wants to tout this as anyway positive for Canadians or our local talent.
See the comment from Aaron Peters.
https://www.facebook.com/StopForeignWorkersAndOutsourcingCanadianJobs
Well done!
Your comments show a profound lack of knowledge of how the music scene/business actually works, clearly you haven’t done your homework either and are basing your argument on one point of view and your own ignorance.
“..acts that take their gigs away” does not make any sense as there is no shortage of venues and nights to fill, a US band that is playing is not taking a gig away from a CDN band, they’re just playing one of many available nights at the given venue. Venues are often closed/empty many nights a week because there aren’t enough bands available that can draw enough of a crowd to justify having the venue open and paying their staff. Ask any touring band how many times they’ve played to empty or near-empty venues on a Monday or Tuesday just to fill a slot on their schedule and hopefully get a meal and beds out of it. RE: “I wonder if they’ve ever thought about being the headline act? Dream big guys. You can do it.” this is totally ignorant. You think a band can magically play a 200-person venue over night without doing the work and opening for a bunch of other bands first, including US bands? Generally a touring band will have one or 2 opening bands, who are usually local, who would not play that venue otherwise because they do not have enough of a following to fill it yet. So the touring band is giving the locals exposure to a bigger/different crowd, helping them with their career, so that eventually, hopefully, they will be able to headline that same venue. The touring band is not taking away opportunity for them, it’s creating it. The touring band is also filling the bar (hopefully) creating employment for bar staff, business for the beer companies, etc. Obstacles to allowing touring bands into small, already-struggling businesses will hurt everyone in the long run. In the short term maybe venues will give a few more gigs to bands that aren’t ready yet, and they’ll play to empty rooms, and the bar will lose money, and they’ll realize that it doesn’t work soon enough, and close or switch to DJ format like so many bars do, further reducing opportunities for Canadian musicians and music fans.
Also the fee is $275 PER PERSON, so a 5-piece band with a driver/merch person has to front $1650 just to cross the border (and if they are refused, they lose the money, what struggling band can afford that?). Touring bands often barely break even (especially the ones playing in bars and restaurants), so this means they start $1650 in the hole before they even play their first show. Note that this fee is NOT APPLIED to bands playing giant arenas or festivals. All we are asking for is that the same exemption be applied to bars and restaurants that ALREADY EXISTS for bigger venues, arenas and festivals. Equal treatment for the lowest-earning people on the musical ladder doesn’t seem that ridiculous.
Funny how you say “They work really hard, no one appreciates them, no one pays them and they say they do it for the love of music” but rather than side with them and take the time to learn what the actual issues are, you’re slagging them. Do you think that if US bands were “taking gigs away from” Canadian bands, there would be so much support for changing these rules from both sides of the border? Canadian music fans and musicians want the opportunity to see and play with touring US acts, adding more obstacles to them playing Canada does not help anyone, and in the long run will hurt Canadian bands and businesses. That is the point you are clearly missing.
Steve, see the comment i made to Jordan and also the comment that Aaron Peters made.
You’ve obviously never been in a band. “headline act… dream big”? Let me help you with how this works: Very few Canadian bands can fill clubs across the country. We don’t have the media outlets, the money or the sheer numbers that the US has. so we play to small audiences (those who aren’t the top 5% who get a buzz and massive radio play). So yes, opening for touring acts, with promotion behind them and a built in audience puts us in front of larger crowds. Then we win them over and build our fan base from those opportunities. That’s where we dream big and that’s why international touring acts are so vital to indie bands in Canada. For an example, my old punk band would play to 20 or 30 people on a weeknight back in the 90’s (pretty typical). Then we had a chance to open for an up-and-coming band called Green Day at a bar just like the ones affected by this legislation. We played to 150 people that night instead of 20 and made many more fans. It was a shot in the arm for us and THAT is what bands in this country stand to lose every time our government puts an obstacle in the way of foreign touring acts. The bottom line is that we are a small market and our government should not be making it harder for those who work hard to bring foreign acts to our country… if anything they should be subsidizing it as the benefit to Canadian local acts in the cities those bands visit is invaluable.
There are big dreamers…they’re just few and far between. Anyone can play music, few are successful musicians.
Digging Roots drives around Toronto in a red truck, pulls over at the side of the road and plays for whatever crowd is there. They don’t need a venue to tell them they’re relevant.
Walk Off The Earth did a Youtube cover of someone’s song that was cute and creative and went viral. Youtube paid them for that video. They didn’t need a venue to tell them they’re relevant.
Have the musicians signing the petition ever thought about renting a venue, selling it out and taking all the proceeds from the door? Why should some bar owner tell you you’re relevant? Maybe the truth is you’re not and you aren’t willing to work hard or be creative enough to change that?
Maybe instead of signing the petition on Change.org….you just need to change.
“….thought about renting a venue, selling it out and taking all the proceeds from the door” – this is a clear indication that you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. I can’t believe I just spent an hour rebutting your article
http://leftymcrighty.blogspot.ca/2013/08/hey-jason-kenney-i-just-did-your-job.html
I have Toronto friends who’ve done it Lefty. Not as hard as you may think. Depends what city/town you’re in.
I think it’s rather rash to assume no one who is against this has not read the government press release. Or talked to several MPs or talked to Service Canada.
I have. That’s what prompted me to write a couple blogs on the topic. The economics of the music industry aren’t the same as the economics of fast food or factory labour.
#1. When you don’t bring in higher draw acts to Canadian venues, it’s not that more people start coming out for lower draw bands, they just don’t come out (Bad for venues)
#2. “I wonder if they’ve ever thought about being the headline act? Dream big guys” of course they do. And what is the best way to win a big enough audience that you can headline next time? Open for a larger band. (Bad for artists)
#3. The margins for touring Canada are already slim, most bands simply won’t be able to afford to do it now. (bad for fans)
#4. Bringing in International acts was always more expensive, there was the $450 + Travel. There was never a preferential treatment AWAY from Canadian bands.
If you are interested in reading more on my blog of why we should fix this, here is my blog: http://www.checkeredowl.com/help-stop-new-government-fees-threatening-music-industry/
In my opinion, you think small Andrew Jones. I can think of many ways for Canadian musicians to be successful without riding on the coat tails of foreign acts. Let the venues fight their own business battles. There are trade associations for that.
With all due respect Andrew, there is nothing rash about that assumption, there are just shy of 95000 signatures on an internet petition against an additional $275 fee???? let them have the $275 that’s not the issue and if a single one of those people actually read that gov article they never would have signed the petition, 95000 saber rattling “well intended and ignorant” people will succeed in eliminating the additional fee….fantastic. this does nothing to address the lack of cap which used to be $450 it does nothing to address the fact that this was a one time fee and is now required of every employer for every position as noted in the link/article and in my original responses. For the most part i believe we are of like mind and opinion here but i do believe you are giving waay to much credit to even the well intended. these people have not informed themselves or they would have petitioned the government to change the classification or exempt touring entertainment acts as Temporary Foreign workers. I know right…did i just blow a mind….such a simple solution. This law is 99.9% what Canada wants, but were not attacking the 0.1% were going after the whole thing. the $275 is necessary to cover the costs of these applications…applications that were formerly payed for by YOU. going to battle with sword and shield to tear apart a change that Canadians in the overwhelming majority have been screaming about for years when, as much as i don’t like to give too much credit to the government, really seems like a bit of an oversight? this is laughable and the writing is 95000 signatures deep on that wall… “not a single person actively informed”. you sir are the informed minority and you honest and truly have my respect for that. This petition will change nothing and it pains me to no end that the “Well intended” will ruin the one and only chance we “had” to make that change. “The road to hell is paved with good intentions”
Thank you all for commenting. I’m enjoying the discussion. I appreciate you all sharing your views on the matter. Respect to all of you.
I have a few thoughts, check it:
http://leftymcrighty.blogspot.ca/2013/08/hey-jason-kenney-i-just-did-your-job.html
I can’t believe so many people think i don’t know any musicians. I guess i need to write more about it. 🙂
I think Angela brings up an important point here, as someone who actually is part of an audience…..the same audience who all musicians strive for. This is not to say she doesn’t know the musician’s side of things……I know she does.
Remember, when someone takes the time and effort to see you, then likes your music, then becomes a fan…..they dream with you. As you want to ascend in the music business, the concertgoer wants to see you do that as well. It justifies their fandom and their appreciation for your music. They know you might be better than having to wait for an opening slot for Green Day. (I must admit, that made me giggle….if you opened for them, couldn’t you have let the world know how shitty they were before the inevitable Broadway show?). Dreaming big is a part of any musicians ethos….imagine “all I want to do is play Mondays at Lee’s….then I’m done”. I will always remember seeing Dave Grohl bawling in front of a sold out crowd at Wembley Stadium because…..he’d made it.
Musicians have to realize that their biggest fans have an investment in them to be a success…..and critiquing those who say “nope, you don’t need an American band to open for” is not only missing the point, it’s missing the opportunity.
I oppose the government financially supporting the arts in any way. Art, especially music, is to challenge “The Man”; it’s hard to do that when you’re taking money from “The Man”.
I also don’t support the government taking money out of artists pockets either. If religions get to be tax free, why not artists?
So, I think the solution can be meted out by splitting the proverbial baby.
1) U.S. bands entering Canada for a flat fee show/tour are exempt.
2) U.S. bands entering Canada for a promoter assisted ticketed show are charged per ticket sold the exact moment they ENTER THE COUNTRY.
This provides two scenarios. The Lady Gaga’s of the world sell out in an hour, so they would be paying full freight, because all the tickets are sold before they cross the 49th. Up and comers would not, because they rely on word of mouth and walk up ticket sales. These, of course, would not be sold before they enter the country, so they would get off relatively lightly.
Just my two cents…….
Members of the unionThe American Federation of Musicians (AFM) of the United States and Canada are EXEMPT from the LMO when coming into Canada to play. Member of the same union The American Federation of Musicians (AFM) of the United States and Canada who are going to play in the US ARE NOT EXEMPT from the equivalent US fees. How is this right or fair ?
It blows my mind when folks talk about International acts stealing Canadian gigs. I’ve played every province in this country. Where exactly is this happening? I’ve never heard boo about anybody losing gigs to all these international acts. In fact, international acts touring in Canada (I’m talking smaller acts who are actually affected by this bill) provide Canadian acts wanting to tour in countries a significant leg up in the international community, whether in beefing up a local musician’s resume (I’ve opened for this or that band), or perhaps more significantly by providing us the connections required to put on shows in other countries. Making it more difficult for foreign acts to tour in Canada makes it more difficult for Canadians to make headway in other countries. I am however happy to hear that the fee is a one time only thing. That’s a little more reasonable.
Anthony, thank you for the comment and thank you for reading the article. My issue is with the general attitude in the Canadian economy toward the value of Canadian workers. We have a small economy here and our population is increasing. We need to train and support Canadians first. Let anyone coming in for a piece of the pie pay their due, i say. The gigs are for Canadian acts. Anyone else is a visitor and should not take centre stage. You may not realize the gigs you and your fellow musicians are losing to international acts. You may however, agree that none of you are being paid very well for your work. Here’s a recent article on the whole foreign worker program – a big issue. http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/so-who-is-to-blame-for-the-temporary-foreign-worker-mess-1.2626254?cmp=fbtl